An embryo is an initial stage of development of a multicellular organism. In humans, embryonic development is the part of the life cycle that begins just after fertilization of the female egg cell by the male sperm cell. In vitro fertilization (IVF) is a process of fertilization where an egg is combined with sperm in vitro ("in glass"). In February 2024 the Supreme Court in the U.S. state of Alabama ruled that frozen embryos can be considered children under the state’s Wrongful Death of a Minor Act. The 1872 law allowed parents to recover punitive damages in the event…
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@9K7C3XQ1yr1Y
I'm on the side that does not kill innocent babies. If frozen embryos can become babies, even though it is a weird process, it is important to protect the embryo.
@9CJ6CB61yr1Y
It really can’t, the clump of 100-150 cells used for experimentation can’t become a human because it requires an environment in the natural human body, which it is not given from the beginning under experimentation, because the embryo was never in a human in the first place to germinate and grow.
@9KM3M5D1yr1Y
No, that is not for individuals to determine. That is a costly decision for families to freeze embryos and not for public opinion.
So what's next? When a woman ovulates and doesn't conceive, she's killed an egg that could become a baby?
I just looked it up. SC justices in Alabama are elected in a partisan elections! All nine are Republicans.
When you vote for a theocracy you get theocracy, not a modern society with IVF and other secular miracles that overcomes your infertility.
Keep voting for men to control you life soon you may be able to adopt a forced birth child product of rape or incest as an alternative to IVF.
Why are you leftists "Pro-Choice" on the issue of the abortion, but clearly Anti-Choice on issues like taxation, forced participation in the Welfare state, legalized plunder, ludicrous business regulations, wage and price controls, fiat currency, central banking, anti-state's-rights, and the broadest possible interpretation of the constitution? In all of these issues, you clearly support voting for people to, as you put it "control your life" – people who include (shudder) MEN – but you choose to make an exception to your authoritarianism and support ANARC… Read more
You don't mean to say (shudder) that maybe judges have biases, and maybe there can be partisan courts in this country, that, I don't know, could wage legal warfare against the leader of the opposition political party and the leading candidate for President of the United States? That would be terrible! Good thing THAT doesn't happen in America, huh?
Apparently you lack either a basic understanding of this ruling OR the IQ level to understand its implications. This is not about calling women murderers who have a miscarriage, or any of that, nor does any conservative or sensible person in this country claim or imply that. This is about experimentation with human embryos in labs for profit. It's shutting down, and rightfully and justly shutting down, an industry that has moral implications of infinite importance. If the embryo is not a baby, what is it? What moral value does it have? Does it have more moral value than a leaf? Why or… Read more
Were you called annoying a lot when you were a kid?
@Patriot-#1776Constitution11mos11MO
Wow. You are one of the least coherent people I have ever debated on this website, and that's really saying something. Instead of addressing any of my claims, for the THIRD TIME you resort to name-calling to make yourself feel better about your amoral and inhuman positions, rather than considering the points I've made.
@ISIDEWITH1yr1Y
Yes
@9LMDHQGProgressive1yr1Y
if frozen embryos are human beings, why are they not counted in the population census? Saying frozen embryos are persons is like treating a seed as a fully grown plant, it is not one yet until it finishes the processes of development.
Illegal aliens, who are also human beings ( though nasty ones ) are also not counted in the census. This is a false dilemma.
@MajorityTruffleLibertarian11mos11MO
“not counted in the census”
The U.S. Constitution mandates a count of the population every ten years, known as the decennial census, and does not differentiate between citizens and non-citizens.
You're not a human being but you’re somehow still counted on the census. So, your point is automatically null and void.
@Patriot-#1776Constitution11mos11MO
It's both depressing and hilarious at the same time to see someone who is so completely uneducated on a topic that all he/she can do is to throw around catty, low-IQ insults in order to make himself feel better about his own stupidity. Calling people non-human is not an argument my friend.
@9LL34L71yr1Y
If Frozen Embryo's are "children" with the rights of a person, there can be little to no IVF, as much IVF involves selective reduction, wherein implanted, viable embryo's are removed/destroyed to increase the viability of other embryos.
@Name-IrrelevantConstitution 2mos2MO
What else would an embryo be? The "clump of cells" argument no more applies to an embryo than to a coma or life support patient. It is fully recognized that when one terminates life support or kills a coma patient, they are ending a human life, despite a lack of consciousness or viability. The lack of current brain capacity does not meet the legal definition of brain death in any reasonable sense.
@9LN394L 1yr1Y
Ascribing personhood to an embryo is a dishonest way of banning it. If you want to ban the practice just say that. Don't be a coward. You are against the science of aiding women in a pregnancy they would otherwise not be able to have.
@9PZR7PT12mos12MO
Technically speaking? Not necessarily. Morally speaking? Absolutely. A human embryo will (maybe) one day become a living, breathing human.
@ISIDEWITH1yr1Y
No
@Name-IrrelevantConstitution 2mos2MO
There is no sound definition of human that wouldn't include embryos. Viability cannot determine human life, as there are many people who are not viable (on life support) who are still legally recognized as human. Nor is consciousness a good standard, as there are many coma patients who are still considered human.
@9LN394L 1yr1Y
This is not a scientific question. It is a moral one. Or, a religious one. It boils down to whether you believe in freedom or not. Do you think a woman is free to ask a doctor to help her with pregnancy or not. Do you think the State should be able to control peoples healthcare or not. Are you an authoritarian or not.
@9LS7K8L1yr1Y
This is not a scientific question. It is a moral one. Or, a religious one. It boils down to whether you believe in freedom or not. Do you think a woman is free to ask a doctor to help her with pregnancy or not. Do you think the State should be able to control peoples healthcare or not. Are you an authoritarian or not.
This ruling is just on time for tax filers. Don’t forget to claim your child tax credit. One for each embryo.
Maybe I should move to Alabama and adopt an embryo. I could get a big tax deduction and since I am close to retirement age I could collect extra social security since I have a dependent. Someone could foster a batch for extra money.
For the cost of running a freezer there is a lot of room for profit.
Vote blue unless you want to continue living in a dystopian society where women have no rights over their bodies. Abortion policies seem to change on a daily basis. Time for women to stand up and fight.
This is not about women's bodies, this is about baby's bodies, God-given rights, and the sanctity of human life. Government has one single purpose – to defend the God-given rights of its people. And the first priority in so doing, the fundamental purpose of the law, is to prevent the shedding of innocent blood, from the point of conception to the last desperate breath of old age, because without life, you cannot have liberty or property, or any other real or imagined right in existence – because if you are dead, how could you possibly exercise any right? Therefore the… Read more
This certainly raises questions. While I would tend to agree with critics of the decision, surely fertilized embryos do have potential to be viable and therefore deserve some respect. Do they deserve the same civil rights as born people? Maybe not. But let's not completely dismiss the notion that human fetuses are not merely material. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
An embryo is fertilized, evaluated & transferred days after the egg is collected. It is a collection of undifferentiated cells (8-10 cells at 72 hrs, whereas a fetus is the stage of development after 9 weeks and has a beating heart) that once transferred into the uterus *may* result in implantation & a positive pregnancy test by two weeks post transfer. Pregnancy is not guaranteed, nor is a healthy baby at the end of the process. Everyone working in the field desires to see pregnancy & healthy babies as the result, and are very cognizant of the cost, including emotional costs. These “lawmakers “ have not taken into account where this leaves those fertilized embryos, who pays for the extended storage & what legal & criminal liability medical staff & patients may face while this plays out in the courts.
If it's not a baby, what do. you think it is, and why do you support experimenting with, and developing and creating in labs for personal profit, living beings that you aren't sure the worth of? How can your conscience be satisfied when experimentation is going on against beings that could well have vast moral value? After all, you don't seem to know quite what to make of these embryos, nor do any of the Pro-Death people I've spoken to.
@9CJ6CB61yr1Y
Something you learn in basic biology classes, and that is continually agreed upon by later scientists: an embryo used in lab experimentation is usually 4-5 days after conception, with a cell count of 100-150, and absolutely no functional nervous system or feeling at all. It is not traditionally “human” in any sense of the word that would relate it directly to you. At that point, it’s basically just unique stem cells without a being that’s created from it. The embryo couldn’t be an actual fetus at any point, let alone a baby, so it’s nerves and feeling will… Read more
@lemans34271yr1Y
Crazy to think that the people who actually want to be parents are now in this limbo state. I can’t imagine how discouraging it is for them to go through this and feel like the state is against them. Alabama will most definitely lose some amazing, loving future parents to other states.
Don't be absurd. Alabama made a ruling that protects human life and stops experimention on human embryos, whose moral value, at bare minimum, is extremely uncertain. They made the just decision, because the only ethical position is to assume that embryos have the same moral value as other human beings, and treat them with respect accordingly – because if you aren't certain what moral value they have, why should you assume it's the same as some Potion a mad scientist concocted, or a lab rat, or heaven knows what else?
Why are you in this comment section fighting for your life, my guy?
@Patriot-#1776Constitution11mos11MO
I am fighting for the lives of those who cannot speak for themselves, because unlike you, I understand that other human beings have intrinsic moral worth just like me and are worth to the death defending.
Yes but No, They are not fully grown fetuses but they can be used to become fully grown and into children.
@9K9J2XX1yr1Y
Very controversial but embryos are considered children, but people should have the rights to their own bodies.
@ChaseOliver 1yr1Y
No, because when shelters are funded by government, however well-meaning, the incentives of shelter administrators shift from providing better services that aid the long-term outlook of the homeless, to filling beds to receive more funding.
@9K78HNF1yr1Y
@Dry550Independent 1yr1Y
No, life begins once a baby is delivered.
I believe life doesn’t begin until after you’ve left the womb, even if it it’s premature, there is technology to save premature babies. Frozen embryos are NOT children, they’re just frozen embryos that’s it.
Imagine not realizing the sperm and egg are already alive before conception. Life begins long before conception; it’s a continuous chain. Republican pretense that life begins at conception is a red herring. The debate is over when human rights should begin, and who prevails when two humans’ lives are at odds.
Have you met a single person in your life who actually claims that sperm and eggs are human beings before they bond? I sure haven't, and certainly the vast, VAST majority of the Pro-Life movement does not believe that, because it can be scientifically disproven, However, it can be scientifically proven that from the point of conception an unborn child is a human being.
@Patriot-#1776Constitution11mos11MO
Instead of downvoting me, can anyone offer a rational objection?
@FreeTradeJuliaPro-Choice11mos11MO
Consider the legal and practical implications. If we define embryos as children, would that mean parents have parental obligations and rights from the moment of conception? How would this affect issues like custody, inheritance, or medical decision-making? How do we balance these rights with the autonomy of the person carrying the embryo?
@Patriot-#1776Constitution11mos11MO
You are using the Appeal to Consequences Fallacy, illogically arguing that because my claim, if true, would result in making difficult decisions, it must be false. In reality, you should be examining my claim based on its own merit, rather than on what negative consequences you think it would produce, if true.
@LapwingBrett1yr1Y
So now its time to end organ donations? (since their heart is beating during harvesting) and pass laws that keep people on life support forever. These political laws need to stop.
@B48LHM23mos3MO
What race? If it's non-White, then it's not even considered a human being to begin with. Abortions & sterilizations should be *mandatory* for non-Whites.
@B43PR9Q3mos3MO
they should be considered embyros until it is appreant what the intention to do with them is. Should they be used for pregnancy then yes they are children, if it is for scientific purposes then no they are still embryos
@B3YPQYL3mos3MO
No, because this sets a precedent that would allow miscarriage or other unintended pregnancy terminations to be tried against the mother
@B3XZXPP3mos3MO
Although a frozen embryo is not legally considered a child, it is still a form of life with potential for development.
@B3JZ28G4mos4MO
If the embryo has yet to develop a functioning brain, then it shouldn't be considered a child because it would only be a lump of cells acting on pre-written instructions without the ability to properly think for itself.
@B3GSBDT4mos4MO
Depends on situation. no one should be charged for accidental drop especially if there is no malicious intent.
@B3C9CD3 4mos4MO
It should be valued as an organ from the originating person, not as a child, because of how vital it is for family planning.
@Conservatism101 8mos8MO
Yes, and only allow abortion in cases of rape, incest or the doubtful survival of either the mother or child.
@9WFLW8S8mos8MO
I feel like it depends on if they really are alive or not. If something haven't developed a consciousness then it probably doesn't belong to be considered a child until then.
@9W9FMD68mos8MO
It depends on the type of person you are having multiple points of view on this topic makes this question hard to answer
@9W9F8688mos8MO
I believe that they should be considered children and when it's given away, the sperm. That if the couple doesn't want any connects with the child then that should be acceptable and that should be fair with agreements.
@9W8DF5G8mos8MO
I think embryos that are frozen in the first place by somebody shouldn't just be trashed, because why go through the effort of freezing it when you're just going to discard it???
@9W4ZMRM8mos8MO
Yes, but there should be protections for medical practitioners that are trying to help a couple conceive and the embryos die due to accident.
@9VYH47S 8mos8MO
Yes, but the parent or parents should be careful and look into the types of sicknesses or diseases their future kid may have since they came from frozen embryos.
@9VNVLPB9mos9MO
Yes, these children though frozen can still become babies when implanted so they should count as kids too
@9VNB2H99mos9MO
I believe that they have the possibility to be fertilized and become children, but are not children in their current state
If an unwanted zygote isn't allowed to be terminated because it is a "person," then so is a frozen embryo.
@9V4B4X29mos9MO
No, because it prohibits couples from keeping frozen embryos and using them in the future, but theft, damage, or selling of embryos should be criminally charged higher than if they were considered property.
@9V4B4X29mos9MO
No, but theft or damage of embryos should be criminally charged higher than if they were considered property.
@9TXQ3Z8Women’s Equality9mos9MO
No, as they 1. can't live without the host (mother) and 2. this embryo can't feed, drink or do anything on its own. This is not an organism.
@9TM2GSL9mos9MO
I believe that embryos are not in a conscience state of mind, meaning they will never know they have existed or not. If the mother cannot afford, is not in the right state of mind, or is forced to have a baby there is no reason to have a baby that will suffer the consequences of their mother never wanting to have them in the first place.
@9TG5MJS9mos9MO
depends how old was the embryo when it was frozen, if its just barely forming and just cells then no.
@9T6HP2C 9mos9MO
I'm afraid I don't have sufficient data to formulate a point of view at this time. May come back to edit later.
@9D66V72Republican 10mos10MO
depends, Those providing the sperm and egg that created the embryo should decide how they classify it. What they want done.
@9S96RMYIndependent10mos10MO
Embryos are embryos and haven't even been created into a living, breathing thing yet but I do see concern on why it could be considered a child.
@9KT6MTRLibertarian 10mos10MO
Regardless, if the company/institution the parents of those embryos entrusted the care and keeping of makes a mistake, the institution/corporation should be held liable for the mishandling of the embryos
@9RZYD4Q 11mos11MO
Yes, if the intent was to preserve them for future children due to disease, surgeries, or other health risks to the mother
@9RW22YP11mos11MO
If embryos are considered children then all benefits available to families with children should also be available to embryos.
@9RQZ6LD11mos11MO
No, however the hospital should be held accountable for any damages that were caused in the handling of the embryos.
@B2MC4CB5mos5MO
its a context thing plus as a man I feel like the women should get to decide that anyways the men need to stay out of it.
@B23FG7V6mos6MO
Embryos are still cells in need of development and are forming in the mother's womb, so they aren't necessarily considered children until the cell fully develops. It depends on the mother's choice since it is her body and not by law to decide.
@9ZPFB847mos7MO
They are not children yet, but they are living being that has not fully developed into a baby or a child yet.
@9ZNQMKD7mos7MO
They're not children yet but they should be considered with respect since they will become the children of whoever chooses to implement one into their system.
@9YMVBQVWomen’s Equality8mos8MO
no because they haven't been fertilized and they are ONE of the factors that goes into the MAKING of a child
@9Y8R9HW8mos8MO
Yes but a mother should be allowed to decide what happens to those whether that be donating them or discarding them.
@9Y42MWF8mos8MO
Frozen Embryos should be treated respectfully until the medically determined date of non-viability. However, accidental occurrences should not be treated as murder, but compensation to retrieve new eggs and fertilization should be offered.
@9XMCSXV8mos8MO
You ever seen a child? If you ask a child what their name is most of them can answer you. If an embryo dies what was lost? Potential? An embryo doesn't have expierience. they have no self, or senses it's insane to compare a fully shmooving child with tarrible dance skills to a flat stupid sack of goo.
@9XKVM97Independent8mos8MO
No, until the law is in place that life begins at conception these frozen embryos should be treated as children.
@9X8ZQX2Women’s Equality8mos8MO
embryos are embryos but should still be treated with care because people put a lot if money and effort into hoping those can be their baby someday
If the biological couple doesn't wish to use them, they should be offered for adoption to other potential families.
@9X5ZXWM 8mos8MO
Treat them as more than objects, valuing their life as a human, but don't overthink it and give them a bunch of unusable rights.
@9WZYKW68mos8MO
If someone is trying to have a kid and can't, they usually use embryos, they are in that situation for example
@9WQTJYCPeace and Freedom8mos8MO
If the embryo is not developed, no. But if its developed like its like a whole baby that is forming, yes.
@9WQ573D8mos8MO
No Not by law, but I think that its allowed to believe this and have a hospital that agrees with this, though by government standards No they should not.
@9WMF99Z8mos8MO
killing them would be wrong, but as an embryo, it cannot think yet, so it is still fine to abort depending on the age of the embryo
No but there should be laws in place in case of gross neglect of embryos while in care of the business storing them. They are still personal property.
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